La Dulce has started an interesting dialogue about giving good dance; it's useful, meaningful and good. We should thank her.
We recently were out dancing together at my local venue. I entered the milonga, it was quiet, the door man was totally unknown to me, we paid and went in. There was no welcome. It was as if I was a stranger. You pay your money, you take your seat.
The ambience of the evening was poor. There were harsh electric lamps on the tables, the floor was large and good to dance on, but it was bereft of dancers. I enjoy space, and the thought of people being able to observe me doesn't inhibit me
I was waved at by one of my friends and I went and joined them. Shoes and coats were slung on the backs of the chairs and there was water and glasses on the tables. No nibbles or juice, there was a cafe a flight of stairs away.
The DJ was on a stage, the teachers were to the right of the entrance door, separated from the public by an expanse of floor and the desk where you paid your fee.
The music was good, but I felt that at times the dancers inhibited by the space. There was little mingling between the tables so the opportunity to catch someone for a dance had to be marked by crossing the floor rather than a chance conversation leading to a dance. The visiting teachers gave a performance. I felt annoyed that there was so little stage management. No raising of the lights so we could clearly see the awesome performance. They were remarkable dancers and a real pleasure to watch. I felt that if the organisers themselves felt inspired by the ambience they had created, I would be truly amazed.
I danced with two people all evening. They were good friends and a pleasure to dance with. But one of whom I had come with so I could have saved a tenner, the petrol money and the driving time and danced with him at home. I had some stimulating conversations too, but I felt let down, as thought the night had been not been carefully put together or cared for. For dancers who had travelled there was little welcome, and I felt sorry for them that they had exerted the time and trouble. I stayed until 1am then left after greeting the organisers on my way out and saying goodbye.
The following evening we went to Cambridge where for £2 more I was welcomed with a room to change, a fine buffet and a decorated room with people who greeted me and invited me to dance. I was enchanted. I left at 4am
Hi Diana,
ReplyDeleteI think that you are very correct that there are a lot of things that can make or break an evening in terms of enjoyment, not just the music. Often all it requires is some very small adjustments as you've observed, a warm greeting, a softening of the lights, a slight repositioning of the tables/chairs to change the mood and ambiance into a winning event.
It's something that I've been noticing more and more.
David
Hmmm David, I feel very down about it. I can't invite my firends to these events even though the teachers are amazing..Its going to be a matter of lets do the classses and head back to mine for wine, music and a feast!
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering though, how was it on the Saturday night? Did it improve with the swell of numbers on the main night?
I think you got it spot on regarding the atmosphere at the milongas - the lighting and the layout made it very difficult to ask unknown people to dance, there was no easy way to circulate, and people definitely tended to stay in their own groups. I'd suggest more lighting, and a different layout. As it was, the place was intimidating, and I speak as someone who regularly attends Negracha's...
ReplyDeleteHowever, the classes were first-rate; I got a lot out of them, and they made the thing worthwhile for me.
Different David for the first comment... I'm the one from the Bramshaw area.
ReplyDeleteIt's worth giving feedback to the organisers if you think they will be receptive to constructive criticism so they they can improve things next time.
It is also possible as a dancer to change the mood/ambiance of a room if you have the energy and the desire to do so. There's someone I know from Berlin who regularly seems to do that.
Hope to see you in Bramshaw sometime soon.
from the Cambridge website
ReplyDelete"We do make an effort with the "friendly atmosphere" bit and have a number of
active hosts on duty during the all night milonga.
host: a person who invites guests to a social event (such as a party in his or her own home) and who is responsible for them while they are there "
>
Some simple do-ables
1. Greet people as they arrive
2. If they are strangers and especially if they're on their own then offer to introduce them to a couple of people
3. Act as taxi dancers; ladies need their skills showing off and just to dance. beginners need encouragement and so do us shy dancers!
4.Hosts should circulate through the evening and engage with people.
There is probably a formula of room size and the number of tango dancers that works and a size where it feels empty
@ David
ReplyDeleteHi David thanks for the comments. I can't help but find myself agree that the dancers themselves are the strongest source of ambience of the night and here in essence that is the crux of the problem.
There isn't that sense of community with this venue..
@ El Loco
the simple list is often a good place to start. Many thanks..
I'm wondering though how other people responded to the weekend. The workshops were apparently excellent.. Rave reviews. If you attended one I'd love to hear about it!
From La Dulce
ReplyDeleteHello,
I attended both milongas, FWIW.
Re: greeting, I arrived early on both nights and was met in effusive Gallic style by the hosts and introduced to the 'door dolly', a non-dancing young man representing the actual organisers, The Birmingham International Dance Festival committee. I'd suggest that your much later arrival ( I clocked you) meant Sandra & Lloyd were on the floor by then (literally, not figuratively :)
I think we should give this enthusiastic pair a break . They have been knocking themselves out trying to create a tango community in Birmingham against what one local told me is endemic indifference. To quote him : "Brummies think tango is poncey") Yet these passionate young Marseilloises ? Marseilloisies? I give up, Mar-sale-ers... have not given up. They continue to bring world-class teachers to the Friends' Institute. Vive la Gallo Ciego!
That said, I know what you mean about the lack of social (and dance) interaction. I've suffered from it at previous milongas there and was left feeling as disheartened as you sound. David B may be right that it is the vastness of the too-empty floor which inhibits one from walking across to accost strangers (though I found some very interesting ones to engage with on both nights, floor-walking hussy that I am.)
El Loco makes a good point about the host's duty to taxi dance , but again I must defend Lloyd Vidal and Sebastien Misse. I saw both of them take a planchadora for a show-off spin, to good effect.
In conclusion, shift a few tables by all means (Titanic and deck chairs?) but should we not all rather be attending their events to spread a little warmth so we melt the iceberg of Brummie indifference/ shyness/ exclusiveness...whatever it is.
But I shall incorporate the points made here about event organisation in my Giving Good Dance blog. It is part of it. Tienen razon, amigos.
La Dulce
Hello,
ReplyDeleteI attended both milongas, FWIW.
Re: greeting, I arrived early on both nights and was met in effusive Gallic style by the hosts and introduced to the 'door dolly', a non-dancing young man representing the actual organisers, The Birmingham International Dance Festival committee. I'd suggest that your much later arrival ( I clocked you) meant Sandra & Lloyd were on the floor by then (literally, not figuratively :)
I think we should give this enthusiastic pair a break . They have been knocking themselves out trying to create a tango community in Birmingham against what one local told me is endemic indifference. To quote him : "Brummies think tango is poncey") Yet these passionate young Marseilloises ? Marseilloisies? I give up, Mar-sale-ers... have not given up. They continue to bring world-class teachers to the Friends' Institute. Vive la Gallo Ciego!
That said, I know what you mean about the lack of social (and dance) interaction. I've suffered from it at previous milongas there and was left feeling as disheartened as you sound. David B may be right that it is the vastness of the too-empty floor which inhibits one from walking across to accost strangers (though I found some very interesting ones to engage with on both nights, floor-walking hussy that I am.)
El Loco makes a good point about the host's duty to taxi dance , but again I must defend Lloyd Vidal and Sebastien Misse. I saw both of them take a planchadora for a show-off spin, to good effect.
In conclusion, shift a few tables by all means (Titanic and deck chairs?) but should we not all rather be attending their events to spread a little warmth so we melt the iceberg of Brummie indifference/ shyness/ exclusiveness...whatever it is.
But I shall incorporate the points made here about event organisation in my Giving Good Dance blog. It is part of it. Tienen razon, amigos.
La Dulce
Hey La Dulce,
ReplyDeleteGlad to hear that you enjoyed it! I've invited Loyd and Sandra to comment so it would be interesting to hear their views.
Building a community is for me about a group of people meeting to share a passion or interest, if there is a lack of passion it cannot help but convey itself. Lack of care is one of those great signifiers.
Loyd and Sandra have brought much to Birmingham and at times like last weekend despite bringing world class teachers there were spaces in the classes. This must be dissappointing for every one. And yes if the milongas don't swing, we should be asking ourselves why.
Personally I enjoy dancing, and have been happy to travell, to muck in, and to contribute. Eleni's recent weekend in Birmingham had an amazing buffet, we all contributed and it made a huge difference. When I had a call from Elani asking me to come to a class as they needed a follower - I came, and offered to pay, the class was that good. There is community in Birmingham and in some of the venues but not all and that seems to me to be an issue.
Perhaps the confidence to ask her students to join in and contribute is what is required, but perhaps we can extend that support to Loyd and Sandra? I like the ideas that El Loco has put forward about having hosts. It's an ideal way to enable mixing and it only after all takes two to tango.
To have the onus of organisation, hosting and performing all on one couple is a lot to ask any one. I'm sure many students would be happy to help dress the room, bring food, do some stage management. Personally it's a venue close to me has excellent teachers and I would be pleased to put in an input.
There is another event planned for October. I will look forward to writing a second review.
Hi guys it’s Loyd.
ReplyDeleteI normally don’t get involved on blogs or the tango-uk arguments and other discussions. I just decide not to. But on this occasion I will respond; because Diana asked me for it, and I respect Diana as a person and a dancer. But that will be my only contribution. If you want to discuss more with me, come to see me or send me an email.
Sandra and I have spent MONTHS organising this event, and despite what is been said, I have spent all day Friday on my own setting up tables, the flags, the sound system, the table covers, the flyers... Sandra had spent her day washing the table covers, flags, buying the wine, the orange juice, apple juice, glasses...
We have done a huge amount of advertising (late because of the lateness of the organisers – which meant that a lot of people have already planned ahead their bank holidays Tango...) and have invited one of the top 5 tango teachers / performers of the planet and the best DJ in the world. We listen to the ones who complained about the high prices of the Milongas in October (even though they are the cheapest of the country for that type of artists...) to put it even more down to £10, for Milonga until 2am with performance, DJ Damian, a great floor and drinks including wine. Now, tell me where I can get better value for money please, am dead curious...
So to have 20 (or so) people in your Milonga is disheartening to say the very least. But as La Dulce says (and thanks for your kind words BTW), we NEVER give up and will continue to be the only club outside London inviting the best teachers in the world to our events. Because we are mad, we are mad about tango and want to serve our (small but great) community of students. Because we do that for you guys, not for us. We have classes with these people in Italy, Argentina and all over the place year in, year out.
I have a vision of tango and I invite the people who share it, the traditional gurus, the Gods of tango of our times. If people don’t see that, it is a big loss for them, not for us. We don’t do things in order for people to like us – we do this type of events for people to enjoy and to have the pleasure of welcoming the bests in our school. This is not a business for us, this is our passion, and for business we have our job.
We might lose money (in fact we do), but I have spent one the best weekend of Tango of my life this weekend Why? Because classes were attended by most of my students; and Sebastian and Andrea were amazed of the level – they didn’t have to teach the basis of tango (posture, embrace and walking) as they already acquired these concepts (week in week out). Sebastian and Andrea don’t see this that often, that is priceless for us as teachers, having had so much praise from such legends. Because Friday we performed and we really enjoyed it – and so did the other people judging by the comments I had. Because Saturday we had a busier night (60) and I had a surprise from amazing tango friends from London and the performance was outstanding.
ReplyDeleteBut do I wish there was more people? Hell yes; but as Sebastian said, you don’t have the quantity, but God you have the quality and it all that matters.
If I knew there would be so few people, we would have changed the room disposition; but hey, who would have guessed that inviting such unique talent and doing so much advertisement only 20-60 people would turn up? Not me. Especially that Javier and Andrea attracted more than 100 people last October (but then advertising was done well in advance and there was no big event around).
For the welcoming, am afraid we were chatting with Sebastian and Andrea (met them the first time this weekend and we have bonded quite well) a lot and did not see most people entering; normally we are at the door and welcome people; this was the first time we had someone at the door – as requested by the event organisers. And also, it was great for us to have someone at the door as for once, we were able to enjoy fully the Milonga, without having to take money to put a tick in a box...
And I remember one person who came in at the door – where I was at the time – at the beginning of the Milonga and looked at me angrily asking why there were so few people and saying that he might not come in then... Is that supposed to put you in a welcoming mood?
As for the Taxi Dancer; without wanting to upset people, this is a job, but not mine. Sebastian and I invited 5 people on each of the 3 nights. I dance when the music is good, when the time is good, with the person I want to dance at this precise moment of time. So am afraid, I don’t dance with everyone at my Milonga. Perhaps I should make an effort; but putting all of that weekend together was an effort big enough I think. And I dance when I want to dance, not when I have to; hence why I will never be a professional tango dancer ever. I am free and so I will remain.
But it is true that I am wondering why we are the only club with so few Midlands dancer when we invite amazing guests. For info, when Javier and Andrea came, 70% of the crowd where from London, Italy, Spain and France, the rest was our (mostly) students. This time it was bank holidays and most of them had plans already due to the late advertising. So we had to count on locals (outside our students – who do travel to all events). We would love to have more support from the local communities, but for some reason... It is funny to read that our club is unfriendly when our students are the only ones who travel to all places...
As for October, we will have, again, one of the best couples in the world coming exclusively to our club in the UK for 5 days with DJ Damian Boggio for workshops and performances... How many locals will afford to miss this unique opportunity? No idea...
Abrazos Tangueros y hasta pronto,
L
Sorry had to write it in 2 as the system was not accpeting my apparently too long post :-)
ReplyDeleteLoyd
Hi Loyd
ReplyDeleteNow that's a long post!
The critiques of the venue were not about the teaching, the numbers, the organisation, or the cost - all of those factors were fine, excellent in fact.
The critiques were about the atmosphere; and, to me, venue organisers do have an influence over that.
"As for the Taxi Dancer; without wanting to upset people, this is a job, but not mine."
- I'd suggest that, if more teachers danced more with their students, the atmosphere at milongas would be more welcoming. Personally, I felt intimidated. Of course, I realise this is largely a problem for me to solve; but I felt there could have been more of an effort regarding introductions / mingling.
Example: a fellow dancer (female) was sitting down on Friday, quite miserable because she'd only been asked to dance a couple of times. But her evening was literally transformed when Sebastian asked her to dance at the end of the evening. Those two dances turned her entire night, from a flop to a delight. That's the level of effect a small effort at mingling by teachers can achieve.
I sympathise with the "numbers" problem (although personally, I enjoyed the Friday milonga much more than Saturday, despite the lower numbers). And of course I respect the effort you guys put into it; I know it's a thankless task.
Just a point David, Sebastian did not invite this lady (who is our student) because she hadn't had a dance all night - but because - as I said on my post - he wanted to dance with her on that tanda at that particular point in time. It was not by any stretch of the imagination "an effort" by him. I can tell because him and I talked about it later on. He wanted to dance with her - he danced with her, that's it.
ReplyDeleteGlad to know you liked it though :-)
Thanks, Loyd
Hi Loyd
ReplyDeleteSure - I simply pointed out that the fact of her getting that dance made her night; no matter what Sebastian's motivations.
So, by extension, I think if organisers / teachers did more of this sort of thing, then the atmosphere at milongas would improve.